Wait, What? Ep. 110: Let It Snow, Let It Snow, Let It Snow

One of the two delightful pieces of art made for us by the impressively talented Garrett Berner (a.k.a. The Mighty Gar)

It's our last podcast of the year!  Yes, after this two hour and ten minute Whatstravaganza, you get a nice two week vacation from our wee voices nattering on and on, answering your questions, picking apart your comics.  Finally!  Some peace and quiet for your holidays!  Doesn't that sound pleasant?

Anyway...after the jump!  More art!  Lots of links! A hastily assembled and incomplete "Best of" list! And also: Show Notes!

Another great piece by Gar. We owe that man an "Eternals" debt of gratitude! (Ha,ha! See, because Kirby did The Eternals and...?)

All right, so as you may recall, last episode we answered four questions and had something like forty-seven questions remaining.  Did we get through them all in one two hour podcast, you may be asking...?

Well, no.  but we did manage to do the following:

0:00-8:03:  We open with a delightful reading from Graeme of a well-loved holiday sketch.  Then we go on to discuss Graeme's emerging status as a Canadian broadcasting superstar, internet deadlines, just about everything but comics.  Because (as you know by now), that's the way we roll.

And you know, as long as I'm posting multimedia links, I wanted to draw your attention to a few things, in case you missed them:  a short but sweet interview from Al Kennedy of the famed House to Astonish podcast over at The Beat!; an all-superhero sketchcast from The Irrelevant Show with most of the sketches written by the brilliant Ian Boothby (his Superman vs. The Parasite sketch struck a special silver-age nerd sweet spot for me); and the two Cheat Sheets Abhay has done to date, featuring voice work from the brilliant Tucker Stone and yours truly, the first on the 1960s

and the second on Rap Music.

Oh, *and* speaking of Tucker Stone, I know I've clued some of you guys in to the great Comic Books Are Burning in Hell podcast, but I should also mention that if you like Wait, What? and you like movie nerdery, you should check out Travis Bickle on the Riviera, a fantastic movie podcast by Tucker and Sean Witzke that is always entertaining and funny and smart.  I really should've hyped it sooner but I am Lay-Zee  (Kryptonian scientist and wastrel).

Whew!  So between this episode and all of the above, you should have enough to keep you busy during our two week absence, right?

8:03-10:35: But here's some comics talk--about Action Comics #15 by Morrison, Morales, and crew.

10:35-12:53: (Graeme also really liked Doctor Who #3 by Brandon Seifert & Philip Bond.)

12:53-17:10: Because it was a free comic on Comixology, we also discuss the first issue of the Star Trek/Dr. Who Assimilation2 comic by Tony Lee and J.K. Woodward.

17:10-44:32:  Question! from Matthew Ishii (and Dave Clarke):  “'Re: Leinil Yu overselling emotion in scenes. I was at a talk by Colleen Doran (comic writer and artist on a bunch of things) who criticized the comics industry as a whole trending towards this, because of the impact of Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko. You guys are all about Kirby, do you think this is a fair comparison.' I'd be interested to hear you guys talk about that, as a guy who loved manga and hated superheroes his entire childhood." We also talk about the current situation with Gail Simone and DC.  We also bleep ourselves.  (Maybe for the first time ever?) We also talk more about what the hell DC is thinking?  Also, Graeme gives a New52 pitch for Scooter that is, frankly, stellar.  And since he's been rereading the Fourth World Omnibus, we also discuss Kirby (because how can we not?) and his amazing run on Jimmy Olsen.  And also Geoff Johns.  (Oh, god.  I really should've broken all these out into individual time-stamp entries.  Sorry!)

44:32-53:27: Question! from Matthew Ishii:  "Q: What comics are famous and considered classics, when the writing was mediocre but the art elevated it?  Likewise, name some comics where the art was pulled from good to great by the coloring or the inking."

53:27-54:19:  Non-Question! from David Oakes:

"'Waiters' Are Fans, Forgo Long Explanation"

54:19-57:35:  Question! from Dan Billings:  "Why is it so hard to drop books? I am heading into the shop today and realize I am reading 16 books – money-wise, that’s crazy and quality-wise, there are not 16 good books coming out this week. Or is this something I should address with my therapist instead?"

57:35-1:02:56:  Question! from Ian Brill:  "This has nothing to do with comics but I want to ask Graeme something I’m surprised it took me this long to figure out to ask. When you’re writing career started was it difficult to switch to the American spelling of words? Do you sometimes find your original education colouring your spelling choices, leading you to have to apologise to your editors?"

1:02:56-1:03:18: INTERMISSION ONE (of one!)

1:03:18-1:14:43:  And we're back and right into… Question! from moose n squirrel:  "What’s the deal with Alan Moore and rape? […] Somewhat related to this, a second question: if all the horrible sexist shit in comics and comics culture were swapped out with horrible racist shit, do you think comics readers would take the same ho-hum attitude towards it all? Like, if Alan Moore put scenes of, I don’t know, Black people being lynched in all of his comics, would people just shrug and say, “oh well, that’s Alan Moore, when you read an Alan Moore comic you’re bound to get some gratuitous lynching” the way they seem to do with his gratuitous rape, or would they see some line being crossed? Is it the case that comics culture is grossly sexist and racist to boot? Or is there a reason why it’s sexist but not (as) racist?"

1:14:43-1:17:35: Question! from T:  "Also, do you think such a think as “house styles” still exist at the Big 2, either for whole companies (e.g. a “Marvel Style”) or for lines within companies (e.g. the “Vertigo style,” the 90s X-Men Harras house style, the Weisinger Superman house style, the Schwartz Bronze Age Superman House style, the Schwartz Silver Age House style), etc. If there are current house styles at the Big 2, what are they? Are they art-based house styles, like when people used to say there was a “cartoony art” house style in the Berganza Superman books? Is it a writing-based house style, like people claim Ultimates had in the beginning. Is it a comprehensive art/writing house style like the 90s X-books had? If there are no more things as unique house styles at the big 2 anymore, what do you consider to be the last example of a true, unique “house style” in the Big 2?"

1:17:35-1:19:38:  Question! from T:  "Oh, last question: Does the abysmal state of Jeph Loeb’s writing for the past year show that he’s gotten somehow much worse than he used to be, or is it proof that his earlier, praised work was overrated and is now due for critical reappraisal?"

1:19:38-1:25:31:  Question! from T:  "Okay, Marvel or DC promises you they will hand over the reins of your all-time favorite character or concept to a certain writer for a guaranteed 100-issue run, and this run will not only be the only place to read about your favorite character or concept, but no one else will be allowed to write said character or concept during this duration, this 100-issue run will have zero editorial edicts and the writers will have total free rein over the concept and can do whatever they want. Also, if you don’t accept this deal, there will be no comics, adaptations, guest appearances, or anything with your favorite character or concept for a 10 year period. Yes, a 10 year moratorium, even if we’re talking Batman, Justice League, Avengers, or Wolverine. (Okay, so this is a far-fetched, impossible concept I know, but just go with it). Your choices are:

1) Jeph Loeb 2) Brad Meltzer 3) Chuck Austen 4) Mark Millar 5) Brian Bendis

Which one do you trust the most with your favorite character/concept?"

1:25:31-1:32:09: Question! from Ben Lipman:  "What’s the deal with people acting like Alan Moore is the only writer with rape in his works? Isn’t he just working within the tropes/archetypes of the genres he works in? Isn’t it weird to ignore all the acts of violence in his works, to only focus on the sexual violence? Moore has a rep for writing about rape, despite that sex fills his works and is mostly shown shown as a positive life-affirming experience – I would say positive sexual encounters far outweigh the negative one’s in his works. Is it perhaps the fans/commentators who are in fact fixated on rape? Did JG Ballard have to put up with this shit?  What would it take for Jeff to end his financial boycott of Marvel? What steps do they need to take to get him back?"

1:32:09-1:32:56: Question! from Adam Lipkin:  "It seems that the inevitable “Wait, What?” Drinking Game has to have a rule requiring listeners to take a drink every time Jeff talks about editing something out and then never actually doing so.  But after the last episode, there needs to be a rule for times when he talks about editing something out and then actually does so (but still tells us something was cut). Is that a sip, a chug, or some other amount?"

1:32:56-1:37:04:  Question! from gary:  "Graeme, if you had to replace Jeff with another host from world of comics (writers, artists, editors, etc), who would you replace him with and why? Jeff, if you had to replace Graeme with another host from the world of comics (writers, artists, editors, etc), who would you replace him with and why?  And together, if you had to take on a third person on this podcast, who do you think would fit into the rhythms of your podcast?"

1:37:04-1:40:52: Question! from gary:  "If you were given free reign of What If, what would be the titles of your first 3 “What Ifs”? Also, if you were given free reign of Elseworlds, what would be your first 3 genre mash-em ups?"

1:40:52-1:42:32:  Question! from Tim Rifenburg:  "I was curious if you guys specifically use a pull list for certain books or do most of your buying “off the rack”. Would you be buying less books if you did not have a pull list?"

1:42:32-1:45:12:  Question! from Matthew Murray:  "In light of recent news what are some lost gems of Vertigo? What uncollected series should we be searching back issue bins for?"

1:45:12-1:50:08:  Question! from Brock Landers:  "Also, coming from the generation who entered comics when the Wolfman/Perez Teen Titans and Claremont/Byrne X-men were the two biggest books, I had this notion.  Have DC horribly mishandled the Teen Titans franchise since Wolfman/Perez or was it just a product of it’s time and it doesn’t have the same conceptual vitality and depth as the X-men?"

1:50:08-1:52:50:  Question! from gary:  "What comic book by Matt Fraction is most like a Waffle Cone? What Matt Fraction comic book is least like a Waffle Cone? Please elaborate on both."

1:52:50-1:54:13:  Question! from Kag:  "Where should we, as comic readers, be hoping Karen Berger lands? At an existing mid-major (IDW/Dark Horse)? At an existing “art house” (Top Shelf/Koyama)? At a major publishing house (Random House/Penguin)? Or do we want her launching a startup?

1:54:13-2:11:43:  Then, instead of going on to the next question(!), we decide we should turn to Jeff's cobbled together "Best of/Last Minute Comic Book Gift List," cobbled together in part from my introductions.  As mentioned herein, this list is far from exhaustive and there are so many tremendous works out this year I didn't read that I almost didn't put together a list.

Anyway, because I want you to have access to something like a list from me,  here it is:

• Empowered Vol. 7 by Adam Warren:  Didn't get enough love this year I thought.  The fight scenes in this book are master classes in comic book pacing and storytelling.  Blew my mind.
• Action Comics #9 by Grant Morrison, Gene Ha & others:  An amazing single-issue comic, a jaw-dropping act of bravado in a work-for-hire context, and a surprisingly persuasive defense of work-for-hire.
• Double Barrel by Zander Cannon and Kevin Cannon:  If you have any kind of access to a digital comics reader, you should check out this great serialization/anthology/comic book clubhouse.
• Pope Hats by Ethan Rilly (issue #3):  Not cheap, but a beautifully illustrated story about a real and recognizable world that is all the more enchanting for it.
• Saga  & Multiple Warheads:  Two strangely similar-but-different casual sci-fi epics, one from Brian K. Vaughan & Fiona Staples, the other from Brandon Graham (whose other title Prophet just missed making this list).
• Marvel: The Untold Story by Sean Howe:  Not a comic but an amazing (and amazingly ambitious) history of Marvel Comics.
• New Deadwardians by Dan Abnett and I.N.J. Culbard: A spiffy little read and will make a great trade.
• The Voyeurs by Gabrielle Bell:  Turns out this left Graeme cold, but I really loved this collection of quasi-dreamlike autobio comics.
• Bandette by Paul Tobin and Colleen Coover:  Digital-only, and the three issues to date are gorgeous, funny, and fun.
• Popeye #3 by Roger Langridge and Tom Neely:  A fantastic single issue where all of the love and craft by Langridge and Neely manages to transcend any of my reservations about work-for-hire being done in the style of the original creator.
• The Lovely Horrible Stuff by Eddie Campbell:  Only $4.99 if you buy it digitally (which is how I read it) and the way Campbell uses various digital tools made the book feel like one of the first real "digital" comics I'd ever read.  Disquieting and fascinating.
• Gisele issues of Archie (esp. Archie #636 by Gisele):  I love Gisele, and apparently I love gender-flipped Archie and gender-flipped Jughead.  Yikes.
• American Barbarian and Final Frontier by Tom Scioli:  Read one in print, the other online [link:  ] and I adored them both.  Of course, I'm probably the perfect audience for Scioli's strongly Kirby-influenced style but I really admire how he tries to find a balance with pastiche work that is neither post-ironic nor knowingly arch.   It's super-sophisticated in its primitivism, I think.
• The End of the Fucking World by Charles Forsman:  An addictively dark mini-comic that uses its format for maximum effect. Forsman's a guy I can't wait to see more of.
• King City by  Brandon Graham:  Realized the trade of this only got collected this year, so some people may not have discovered it until this year…maybe you haven't discovered it yet?  If so, you should: it's a canny and addictive blend of slice-of-life and sci-fi adventure comics.

Other stuff Jeff dug:  The Valiant reboot; Shonen Jump Alpha; 2000 AD Digital; the digital reprints of Crying Freeman over at Dark Horse Digital; the second and final volume of the Kamandi Omnibus by Jack Kirby; and the amazing graphic novel adaptation of Donald Goines' Daddy Cool by Donald Glut and Alfredo Alcala.

Graeme agrees with some but adds three I didn't mention:

• Dustin Harbin's Boxes;
• The Crackle of the Frost by Lorenzo Mattotti and Jorge Zentner; and
• The Nao of Brown by Glyn Dillon

2:10:45-End:  Closing Comments!  Best wishes for the holidays and the New Year!  Join us in 2013 for more fun, yeah?

Oh, and right--the podcast itself!  That would be helpful to include, right?  I mean, it's on iTunes and everything, but that's not everything, is it?  No, not by half, it's not!  Feel free to warm your Christmas ears below:

Wait, What? Ep. 110: Let It Snow, Let It Snow, Let It Snow

And as always, we hope you enjoy...and thanks for listening!

Wait, What? Ep. 106: You Are Number Six.

At Graeme's Behest: the cover to Colder #1

Yeah, that's a pleasant way to get your Tuesday rolling, eh?

Anyhoo, very truncated version of things this time around, I'm afraid but after the jump...show notes!

So yeah, I've got a trip that I'll be on for a few days which means I'm trying to write this AND pack AND panic AND forget the one thing I'm not going to remember until I've been the road for two hours.  But am I letting any of that get in the way of bringing you this podcast?  I say thee: nay!  (Though, verily, I shall admit to assing it by half...)

Oh, and I got a big upgrade on the recording end of things but unfortunately it may be why there's a bit of crackle in the opening of the podcast.  Sorry about that--I hope to have that figured out by next episode...

0:00-41:19:  Greetings!  The small talk is eensy-sized this time around as we get right into the topic of the news that day--the pending cancellation of Hellblazer at Vertigo and the launch of Constantine over at the DCU. Graeme brings the facts; Jeff brings the wild conspiratorial speculation.  (Also, Jeff was a little behind the curve this week, so feel free to create a quick & easy drinking game where you take a drink every time Graeme informs him of something of which he was unaware. You will be feeling no pain in absolutely no time at all.)  Is Vertigo effed in the ay?  Maybe. Is that as bad for the marketplace as it would've been ten years ago?  Maybe not.  Somewhat tangentially related: whatever happened to the NuMarvel generation of creators? Why does Aardvark Books in San Francisco have the used graphic novel section that it does?  And other questions lead us into…

41:19-41:54: Intermission 1!

41:54-1:08:21:  For an early birthday present, Jeff picked up a digital subscription to 2000AD and Graeme has been keeping up with it lately, and so much discussion ensues over issues #1806-1808. Spoilers ahoy (especially for #1808). Want to hear us talk Judge Dredd by Al Ewing and Henry Flint; ABC Warriors by Pat Mills and Clint Langley; Brass Sun by Ian Edgington and I.N.J. Culbard; Low Life by Rob Williams and D'Israeli; and The Simping Detective by Simon Spurrier and Simon Coleby?  Then this is the thirty-seven minutes for you! ( Oh, and if you've never seen the original Prisoner--spoilers! at 1:00:36-1:01:36.)

1:08:21-1:11:19: Then, at the very tail end of things, Graeme discusses Action Comics #14 by Grant Morrison, Sholly Fisch, Rags Morales and Chris Sprouse.  Because he just couldn't bring himself to wait until after...

1:11:19-1:11:42:  Intermission 2!

1:11:42-end:  Since Graeme has been to the store (and Jeff hasn't), he leads with reviews, in alphabetical order, no less, of Colder by Paul Tobin and Juan Ferreyra; Earth 2 #6 by James Robinson and Nicola Scott; Iron Man #1 by Kieron Gillen and Greg Land (and also AvX: Consequences); Stumptown v2 #3 by Greg Rucka and Matthew Southworth; Willow Wonderland #1 by Jeff Parker and Brian Ching; and, outside of alphabetical order (and our natural laws of time, space, and arguably taste), the X-Men: Iceman hardcover collecting the miniseries by J.M. DeMatteis and Alan Kupperberg from 1984.

Jeff, by contrast, is utterly flummoxed by the digital comic Batman: Li'l Gotham by Dustin Nguyen and Derek Fridolfs and happily shares the flum with everyone.  And while we're on the flum tip, Jeff also explains his preparations for reading Marvel comics in a legit non-piratey way as well as his first current Marvel comic in a long time: Captain America #19 by Ed Brubaker and Steve Epting.  Also, the book that really knocked him off his chair: the third issue of Ethan Rilly's Pope Hats:  a stunningly strong piece of cartooning and storytelling that is completely worth your time and cash.

[Stealth bonus #1: we also talk about Sean Howe's amazing Marvel Comics: The Untold Story a bit more toward the end.]

[Stealth bonus #2:  Rather than edit out that bit about my Skype pic, here it is in it's teeny-tiny glory:]

[Stealth bonus #3:  You'll know it when you hear it…]

Again, apologies the show notes are so sparse this time around.  To make up for it, I put this up into the ether a little early so you may have already seen the podcast already on iTunes.  But if not,  you are certainly encouraged to have at it below:

Wait, What? Ep. 106: You Are Number Six.

As always, we hope you enjoy and thank you for listening!

Wait, What? Ep. 105: Ringing Endorsements

Brandon Graham's Multiple Warheads: Worth the Trip

Safe and dry on the left coast, we are willing and able to provide you with two-plus hours of distraction.  At no point in the following podcast do we mention the extensive rat population of New York clawing their way to higher ground even if it means going through dark, electricity free apartments and the helpless population contained therein to do so.  Not once!

So...join us after the jump and help us think happy thoughts, won't you?

Show notes?  Why yes, we do have show notes, now that you mention it...

1:01-4:46: Greetings!  Welcome to the hundred and fifth episode of the world's worst conspiracy. A brief bit of culinary discussion before we gear up to our four color topics of discussion.  Although this is the our first-ever "book club" podcast where we sit down and finally discuss in full Sean Howe's remarkable Marvel Comics: The Untold Story, we also thought we should give you some reviews and news analysis, too.

4:46-31:19:  First up:  the gorgeousness of Brandon Graham's Multiple Warheads.  Graeme and Jeff both read it, both dug it, and both dig into it for your entertainment, edification and (probably) exasperation.  There's also a bit of discussion about the latest issue of Prophet for comparison/contrast.

31:19-31:40:  Intermission Uno.

31:40-1:07:04:  More comics! We're a mite divided on Batman, Inc. #4 and Flash #13. Also, under Graeme's microscope:  Superman #13. Talon #1, Ghost #1, Captain America #19, The Hive by Charles Burns, and, in passing, Superman: Earth One, Vol. 2.

1:07:04-1:07:26: Intermission dos!

1:07:26-1:08:23: Incidentally, though this episode is debuting just before Halloween, we didn't record this in costume or anything...though Graeme does start us off with a very good HAL imitation.  Too bad they haven't invented the "Sexy HAL 9000 costume" for Halloween...yet.

1:08:23-1:56:55:  Sean Howe's Marvel Comics: The Untold Story.  Graeme and Jeff praise it; we kvetch about it; we both whole-heartedly recommend it and have a variety of caveats to issue.  It's the first episode of the Wait, What? Book Club and we invite you to give the book a read and us a listen.

1:56:55-2:02:23:  Tech corner:  Curious about what model of Kindle Graeme is using?  Jeff is!

2:02:23-end:  Closing comments: In case you wanted a section of the podcast that's all about what to get Jeff for his birthday, listen to this section first!

And...there you have it.  Quality talk about (some quality comics and comics-related nonfiction).  This week we're skipping recording so if you fell behind and want to catch up, you've got two weeks to do so.

And if you want to listen to this podcast I just finished notating the heck out of...well, you have probably seen it staring at you from the corner of the block of Haddonfield, iTunes Illinois.

But if not, I believe you will find out it lying just below the Doyle house window below...waiting for you now:

Wait, What? Ep. 105: Ringing Endorsements

May everyone everywhere stay dry, healthy, and safe, and have a fine ol' All Hallow's and All Saint's!

Wait, What? Ep. 103: Churls on Film

They had me at "Kpow!": Gil Kane Atom slugs Gil Kane Green Lantern, from Justice League of America #200.

And so it's that time again, O Mighty Whatnauts.  Join us behind the jump for show notes and kvetching, 'kay?

So, first things first:  sorry for the bad run of luck we've been having vis-a-vis technical difficulties. Graeme starts out the podcast echo-y as all hell but fortunately it gets much better about half an hour through...because we have to stop the call and start again.

In fact, at one point after Graeme and I had been talking for ninety minutes or so, Skype just up and died on me in a way that--unlike other times--caused the recording program to crash out as well, making it look like we'd only have a half-hour podcast, talking about little more than detox diets, Marvel sales strategies, and how Graeme's library system is so much better than my library system.  Thank goodness, I found the temp file and was able to find instructions on the Internet on how to make it editable.   So, you know... hooray for the Internet!  It'd be nice if something other than hard liquor could now make my hands stop trembling but...eh.  What are you gonna do?

And on that note of melancholic resignation...show notes!

0:00-7:00:  Greetings!  Also, because apparently we don't use Twitter properly:  what did we just have for lunch?  Because Jeff is doing an elimination diet and Graeme has had experience with those.  Yes, this is about as far from Waffle Talk as we can get, alas.

7:00-14:31:  Superior Spider-Man!  Graeme has an update for Jeff as what might be going on there with that upcoming event.  Is Dan Slott giving us the Spider-Man comic readers want?  The comic he wants?  Both? Neither?

14:31-29:50:  Then we discuss Marvel's current sales.  It is probably pretty easy to figure out how we got from the previous topic to this one.  Because Jeff had yet to purchase Sean Howe's Marvel Comics: The Untold Story we didn't spend the whole podcast talking about the book, but Graeme does tell me a little bit about the book.  We manage to once again work in a mention of Sean's amazing Tumblr, Graeme uses the word "spectacular" and Matt Fraction gets mentioned--so please check those boxes off your Wait, What? bingo board.

29:50-37:56:  New comics! Which is to say: old comics!  Yes, Jeff was a little strapped for cash last week and so tried to live life the Graeme McMillons way...by checking books out of the library. Because it is not Graeme's magical Portland library, Jeff's picks are a little more off the beaten path but worthy of discussion anyway.  First up:  Empire State by Jason Shiga.  Also, Jeff exhorts Graeme to check out superstar-in-the-making Jason Shiga in Derek Kirk Kim's Youtube comedy series about struggling cartoonists, Mythomania.  See Jason Shiga before he becomes Judd Apatow'snext superstar!

37:56-39:39: And then....tech disaster!  We end up having to break off the call to get Skype to behave.

39:39-47:32: Back to books! Jeff sums up his feelings on Empire State before moving on to 120 Days of Simon by Simon Gardenfors, a book so impressive Graeme didn't recognize the name despite having actually read it.  (To be honest, Jeff isn't so crazy about it, either.)  If the idea of a cartoonist traveling cross-country to be befriended by strangers and fans, Jeff recommends the similar-but-far-superior Red Eye, Black Eye by K. Thor Jensen (the title of which Jeff, in true Jeff-like fashion, reverses when he discusses it).

47:32-58:39:  Saving the best for last, Jeff discusses Hikaru No Go by Yumi Hotta and Takeshi Obata.  He didn't read it quite far enough to have a very solid understanding of the game Go (I say that we know it here in the States as Othello which is utterly wrong) but actually liked it quite a lot.  (Now that he's three volumes in, he can say he likes it even more!  And that Go is not Othello.)  We talk about how this is exactly the kind of educational but addictive comics that manga can do so well.

58:39-1:12:01: Also in the old stuff that is awesome category, Jeff discovers the first two issues of Ostrander and McDonnell's Suicide Squad are on Comixology (first issue is ninety-nine cents!) and re-reads them for the first time in almost thirty years.  Somehow, despite there being eleven panels on the page, these are widescreen comics before widescreen comics were invented.  Also read by Jeff on Graeme's recommendation Justice League of America Annual #2 with the formation of Justice League Detroit, as well as issues #107 and #108 of JLA featuring the return of the Freedom Fighters.  And Graeme makes JLA #200 sound pretty damn great as well. (See above for proof.)

1:12:01-1:22:04:  Comixology...Submit!  It's not some crazed BDSM fad that's sweeping the nation, it's the new program coming from Comixology that allows people to get their own self-published books on Comixology (for a 50% cut of the proceeds).  Is it a good deal, especially considering the very quiet launch of Hunt Emerson's app of his own material.

1:22:04-1:37:02: Jeff had an uncomfortable moment with Uncanny Avengers #1 on Comixology, but Graeme, having read it, apparently had even more.  We also discuss Fraction's Iron Man which is now coming to an end, and which we both admit we want to see where it goes.  And Graeme also has two great bits of semi-related behind-the-scenes Marvel info, courtesy of Sean Howe's book.

1:37:02-end: Graeme tries to make Jeff guess which book he recently read and enjoyed? [Hint: it's really not the book you would expect.  Certainly, Jeff didn't.]  And which book he also read but cannot discuss?  [You can probably figure this one out.]  As is our wont, we also talk related sales figures and the like until Jeff, weakened and famished, convinces Graeme to issue his mystical cry to end the podcast.  One step closer to Ragnarok!

The show should have already popped up on your RSS feed of choice or made its appearance felt in the luminiferous ether that is iTunes...but you can also gather friends around a table, conduct a little seance, and conjure it here, should the spirits move you:

Wait, What? Ep. 103: Churls on Film

And, as always, we hope you enjoy!

Wait, What? Ep. 102: Age of Chance

From the thirteenth issue of Watchmen by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons, assembled by Miguel Corti.

The episode--she is long! (Just a bit over two hours and forty minutes, in fact.)

The show notes--they are extensive!

So join me after the jump for both, and a bit more about Watchmen issue #13!

Oh, and hey, let us know how this episode sounds to you, eh?  I gave a listen to the sound quality of the first call before throwing it into Levelator and thought it sounded...really okay?  So I'm mixing this raw.

0:00-3:38:  So, is this episode where Graeme is Goofus and Jeff is Gallant?  (Spoiler: No.)  But Jeff is much more chipper than last week, certainly.  At least until we starting discussing... 3:38-6:18: Comics!  (More specifically, Marvel Comics.) (Ultra-specifically, the twenty variant covers for Uncanny Avengers.) 6:18-28:46: Which leads us into discussion of Avengers Vs. X-Men #12 which Graeme has read and Jeff has not so it's time for some heavy-duty recapping on the part of Mr. McMillan. 28:46-43:52: Getting back to twenty variant covers situation, we ponder whether the fact Uncanny didn't outsell Walking Dead #100 is... a good thing? A bad thing?  Just a thing? [Insert "It's Clobbering Time" joke here, as appropriate.]  This ping-pongs us back to talking about (for lack of better expressions) "natural" events vs. "forced" events with Avengers Vs. X-Men, its sales, and whether or not the event was review-proof. 43:52-55:09: Sensibly, Graeme uses the recent (stunningly great) Grantland excerpt of Sean Howe's Marvel Comics: The Untold Story to compare and contrast Marvel's current marketing and operating approach with those prior.  The more things change, the more they stay the same? Well, maybe as far as killing off major characters and trying to capture female readers go.  But if you've ever enjoyed listening to us talk about Steve Englehart and Jim Starlin, you should most definitely check out the excerpt...and probably the book?  (Also, if you haven't seen Howe's amazing Tumblr, check that out too. 55:09-59:40:  Another book up Graeme's sleeve: Batman #13, the first part of the upcoming "Death of the Family" storyline. Jeff counters with Action Comics #13 by Grant Morrison and Travel Foreman. 59:40-1:06:04:  Graeme talks a bit about The Nao of Brown by Glyn Dillon, published by Self Made Hero and distributed in the U.S. by Abrams.  For you pull-quote types:  Graeme McMillan says "It is just a blinding book" and "the most beautiful comic I've seen in the longest time." 1:06:04-1:29:19:  This gives Jeff an opening to talk about Gordon Harris' self-published graphic novel, Pedestrian, Graeme mentions Josh Cotter's Skyscrapers of the Midwest which we hunt up on Comixology.  Doing so reminds Graeme he had also read the digital only sequel to Chris Roberson's Memorial... which leads us to spend a few minutes kicking around the can that is digital pricing and real vs. perceived value using such varied examples as a Digital 2000AD subscription, Saga, Valiant's digital editions, Bandette, Comixology sales, full-price books from Marvel and DC, Shonen Jump Alpha, and more. 1:29:19-2:02:32: A quick rundown by Jeff of the other books he's read this recently: Harbinger issues #1 and #2, a detailed  discussion with Graeme about Amelia Cole and the Unknown World, Black Kiss #2.3, Fatale #8, the very strange saga that is issues #7-10 of Star Wars by Roy Thomas, Don Glut, Howard Chaykin, and Tom Palmer, Axe Cop: President of the World #3, a stunning story by Michael Fleisher and Alex Nino from Showcase Presents House of Mystery (Vol. 3) (and thanks, Dylan Cassard, for that one--you should check out his podcast and podcast-related Kickstarter).  All of which reminds Graeme (somehow) that he's also read issue #0 of The Phantom Stranger. 2:02:32-2:18:48: Also, Graeme has read Thanos: The End by Jim Starlin as well as The Return of Thanos trade paperback featuring both issues of The Thanos Quest.  We talk about that, a little bit about Englehart's first issue on Silver Surfer with Marshall Rogers, The Annihilation books, DC's Cosmic Odyssey, as well as Graeme's favorite Green Lantern. This is what happens when you meet a stranger in the Alps! 2:18:48-end: And then, finally, we talk about the stunner that is the 13th issue of Watchmen, which listener Miguel Corti assembled after a discussion Graeme and I had on-air about just such an issue being via random cut-up of the first twelve.  Here's Miguel talking about the idea and how he executed it, excerpted from our correspondence:

Anyway, my original plan to show my appreciation for the effort you put into creating a show that I enjoy listening to was to make something for you based off of a throwaway idea from one of the episodes that came out in either early 2012 or late 2011. In that episode you discussed the idea of creating a 13th issue of “Watchmen” based on randomly picking panels out of the graphic novel and rearranging them until you had this ersatz issue. I was intrigued by the idea since I had just finished re-reading “Watchmen” and re-watching the movie version because I wanted to thoroughly compare the two and see why the book works and the movie doesn’t, especially since Snyder was so slavish about adapting the source material. Well, a little synchronicity was all it took to get my creative blood flowing, and I decided I would make that heretofore nonexistent 13th issue as way of further analyzing the superb work Moore and Gibbons did with that book, and maybe as something you might be interested in seeing. [...] What follows are the steps that went into making this issue. Please skip to the end if the details hold no interest for you.

First, I had to find a copy of “Watchmen” that wouldn’t object to being gutted and mutilated so heartlessly. Not as easy as I thought. The only copy I had here in Japan was the Absolute Edition, and my softcover TPB was in the states. I just wasn’t up for taking digital photos of such an unwieldy book. So, I bought another softcover (used from amazon.co.jp) and tried taking pictures with that. Again, the quality wasn’t what I wanted. For a split second I contemplated cutting up the softcover, but fortunately the rational side of brain pointed out—quickly—that I would end up only being able to use the panels from one side of a page. So then I thought: a-ha! This is the digital age! I can just download a copy from DC and then take screenshots with the iPad and then transfer them to my computer. Well, wouldn’t you know it, but for whatever reason, none of the digital comics providers were selling “Watchmen.” No one. Not even DC. (This may have changed in the intervening time, but this was the fact of the matter when I started this project earlier this year.)

So, I turned to the pirates, and found a PDF of the entire series and downloaded it. I’m not proud, but since I had already purchased the book 3 times in my life, this was as close to a victimless crime as I was going to get. (Unless, of course, you count all the people who were leaching off my seed with bittorrent while I was downloading it. There’s a chance some of them never have and never will buy the book.) If I could have found a proper digital copy (which would have made the work a lot easier) I would have gladly bought it. Unfortunately, I had to come to terms with the moral ambiguity of the situation and move on.

Next, came breaking down the work. I remember you had discussed that the book was a 9-panel affair throughout. In theory, yes, but there are a lot of double and triple panels throughout the book. Each page is built on a 9-grid layout, however. In some places, there are a whopping 18 panels on the page, but they’re still laid out with the 9 grids. I assigned each grid a number. For example, the panel in the top right of page 5 in issue 1 with Rorschach picking up the Comedian’s happy face pin would be 1-5-3 (issue 1, page 5, panel 3).  The panel after it would be 1-5-4. I made an Excel sheet with the entire book broken down like that. I needed the numbers to all fit within the margins of the paper I was going to print out, because I was going to cut them up and literally pull panel/grid numbers out of a hat. (It ended up being a plastic bag.) Unfortunately, all the issues don’t have the same page count, prohibiting me from doing a simple copy/paste over the whole file. The first issue is 26 pages, then issues 2 through 11 are 28 each, and issue 12 is 32.

After sorting that out, I printed out the file and sat down to cut it up. But, wait! On the last panel of every page, the panel is always abbreviated to allow space for a quotation in a black box. I couldn’t have my 13th issues without one of those, so I needed to separate the 9th panel/grid for each issue’s last page from the rest of the panels. I highlighted them so I could find them after cutting up the pages, and set those 12 scraps of paper aside. (The one I ended up using in my issue is from issue 5.)

Having cut up all the pages, and placed all the scraps in a plastic bag, I thought it would be easy as pulling numbers out of hat. I was wrong. Again, it’s that damn 9-panel grid that messes with you. Sometimes some panels take up more than 1 grid space, and that would alter what I was trying to do. Usually, I would pull 9 scraps out of the bag, and then record them in the order I pulled them. Then I would copy the panel from the PDF into a Word document. I ran into trouble when, for instance, I would go to get the panel matching the number on the 3rd scrap of paper, but it would turn out to be a 2- or 3-grid panel, or more on some occasions. This meant I had to discard that scrap for now, and keep pulling new one’s until I found one that match the space allotted.

What the last two paragraphs showed me is that even though I tried to make my fake issue as random as possible, that randomness was still subordinate to the original work. You can only imagine the relief I felt at work saved when the first scrap I pulled for one of the pages happened to be from the grid of one of the full-page panels in issue 12. That was the easiest day of copy-pasting-cropping during the whole project.

For the last page, I pulled a scrap from the final panels first because, well, not all of them only occupy one grid’s worth of real estate. This was the only time I went out of order.

Finally, I needed an ersatz cover for my ersatz issue 13. As you probably already know, the cover images of the original series all lead in to the first panel of the interior art. I took my cover from the panel before 10-16-2. If I was any good with Photoshop, hell if I even owned Photoshop, I would have been able to edit out that tail from the word balloon, but so be it. OK, enough of the nuts and bolts. What did I learn? First, the issue itself. It’s just as unreadable as you would imagine an endeavor like this to be. However, there are some interesting aspects that illuminate the whole.

1.     Dave Gibbons drew way more 2-or-more-grid panels than I remembered, which shows how important the size and pacing of the layout was to the story. Every time I come across a comic with half a page’s real estate devoted to something mundane like a plane flying or a car driving, it makes me want to drop the book. I don’t know if the writer or the artist is to blame, but most of the panels in modern comics don’t require that much space, especially now with the shortened book lengths. Gibbons and Moore paced “Watchmen” perfectly, and when panels are drawn bigger than average, it’s for an important reason. The opening full-page panels of issue 12 are shocking because Gibbons held that back until the very end. And despite their size, you’re not sure of what your seeing because you’re visually overwhelmed (at least the first time through), which is the disorienting feeling, I believe, they wanted to convey. Every time I read a comic now that ends with a full-page splash of just a person sitting in a darkened room with no visible background, I want to throw it across the room. And then maybe walk over, pick it up, and tear it apart. Too many modern comics writers and illustrators are just piss-poor storytellers. Whatever your opinion of the work “Watchmen” may be, I think it’s hard to argue against the fact that it is pure comics from start to finish. It’s rare to find creators who actually embrace the medium and do what books and film cannot. I spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about this because it is tangential to my field of employment (video games) where too many games are trying to be movies instead of doing what they should be doing: being and interactive medium. Games that fail to be interactive are doing a disserve to the consumers, and comics that settle for storytelling that could just have easily been done in a movie or book, or even better in those media, are doing a disservice to comics readers everywhere. 2.    As the narrations of Rorschach and Dr. Manhattan are the most prevalent  in the work, their panels in this composite issue have a weird interstitial effect of ordering the randomness of the chosen panels. It helps that in many of Dr. Manhattan’s source narrations he was already jumping around the timeline, so it doesn’t feel out of place here. Many of Dr. Manhattan’s panels tied eerily to the next panel, although the placement was random and almost always from a non-sequential section of the story. For example, on page 12, panel 3, Dr. Manhattan narrates, “They’re shaping me into something gaudy and lethal…” Then the next panel depicts Adrian in his gaudy purple suit swinging a post at his erstwhile assailant. On page 13, panel 2, Dr. Manhattan again narrates: “Laurie’s met him several times. She says his name is Dreiberg.” In the next panel Nite Owl and Silk Spectre are locked in a kiss. There are many other pieces of synchronicity, but the best are tied to Rorschach and Dr. Manhattan because of their strong narratives. In my issues 13, the story becomes Dr. Manhattan’s tale to tell, with Rorschach in a supporting role, a victim of the event surrounding him. One could argue that this isn’t too far from the original’s narrative. The fact that it continues to be so in this jumble I have assembled speaks to the focus and intent of the original. Or maybe there were just too damn many Dr. Manhattan panels to begin with. 3.    Almost all of the commentary on politics and the Cold War itself is lost in my issue. Time is the only strong theme from the original work that remains. Again, that is one of Dr. Manhattan’s themes. The lack of that political backdrop robs the story of some of its weight. I felt that when I watched the movie version too. Because although Snyder is almost slavish in adapting the source material, he does it ever so superficially. Sure it’s still set in 1985, but it doesn’t feel like the world is on the brink of a nuclear war in the movie like it did in the book. New York doesn’t really feel like the dirty, crime-drenched metropolis of the ‘70s and ‘80s. In the book, despite all the advances in technology, New York still remains a non-gentrified, citywide slum, which is exactly what the mass media wanted you to believe about New York in the ‘80s. Snyder’s New York is too aestheticized to feel like it ever needed vigilantes in the first place. This also ties into the altered ending as well. I understand that a faux alien invasion spearheaded by a giant squid would have been a tough pill to swallow for viewing audiences of Snyder’s “realistic” superhero movie; but the fact of the matter is, Snyder revealed his ignorance of current affairs when he made that film 8 years after 9/11. In the book, just like after 9/11, it’s believable that the world would stand with the United States after the tragedy that had befallen it. In the movie, however, the fake Dr. Manhattan attacks hit cities around the world, not just New York. Again, not wholly bad, because of the fact that it was Dr. Manhattan and not an outsider, a la the alien, I have a hard time believing the world would unite in global cooperation. What’s more likely is that the world would erupt in furor at the U.S. for creating Dr. Manhattan in the first place. The U.S. would be culpable in the world’s eyes. What’s worse is that in the context of the movie, there’s nothing for the people of the world to not assume that this wasn’t an attack by the U.S. aside from the fact that the U.S. was hit as well. Since the world knows Dr. Manhattan was created in an accident, how does the world know that a preemptive attack by the U.S. on the Soviets didn’t backfire on them when they tried to exploit Dr. Manhattan?

As you'll hear on the podcast, Graeme and I greatly enjoyed reading Miguel's assemblage, and we wanted to give you the opportunity to check it out and get inspired for yourself. [link is 22.8MB]  And as I mentioned to Miguel in an email to him, I found this project and his analysis to be a tremendous DIY counterpoint to Before Watchmen--it really is a way to revisit Moore and Gibbon's story while respecting the original achievement. We are incredibly pleased to have played even the most indirect part in this project.

Hmm, feel like I'm forgetting something?  Oh yes, the podcast, the podcast... As tempting as it would be to add to the artsy shenanigans and leave only these notes and the book as a type of seashell on the beach for you to find, Episode 102 is indeed out there in the world (provided you define "the world" as your RSS provider of choice) and you can listen to it here as well, should you choose:

Wait, What?, Episode 102: Age of Chance

As always, we hope you enjoy...and thanks for listening!